Marvin Shilmer

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Posts by Marvin Shilmer

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  6

  Stay up to date on the Blood Issue!

  by Lee Elder in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  ajwrb now has a facebook page.

  please follow along:.

  https://www.facebook.com/ajwrb.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  ... but recently in internal correspondence, they've staunchly reiterated their stance...

  What is the internal correspondence you speak of?
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  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Laws protecting minorities, women, the disabled, religious people and the LGBT community from discrimination make us better humans, give us better communities, a better country and a better planet. But the right wing, the X-tian fundies and the Libertarians will cloak their beliefs behind a fence made of hate.

  A few weeks ago I watched a news segment (can't recall the media outlet) about a service provider (a florist as I recall) whose business is threatened because she didn't want to supply her services to a gay couple for their wedding. Apparently the gay couple sued this woman. I asked myself why on earth was this gay couple ruining this woman's business when getting the flowers they wanted was as easy as going to the store next door? Honestly, leveraging law like this seems like hate to me. "And for what? More cows?" We are talking about flowers, and this woman's hard-built business is threatened with ruin over that?
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  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Here's what I don't understand: Why is Indiana singled-out and crapped on when the statutory language at issue is laced throughout state and federal books? It seems to me the powers of Indiana have, for good or bad, done no more than many other powers have before them (and from very diverse political interests!).

  Is Indiana getting its knuckles rapped because it took its leadership longer to draw up and and pass legislation others adopted long before?

  What am I missing here? What is so different about Indiana's recent legislation compared with other state laws (plus federal)?
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  19

  Hotel Caifornia, Stairway to Heaven, Saturday Night Fever

  by Butyoucanneverleave in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  does anyone remember those 2 songs and that movie specifically being mentioned in the watchtower?

  they were"bad" and should be avoided.

  it had to be in the late 70's or early80's.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  The then DO had a short portion of Stairway to Heaven played in reverse to show everyone it contained the phrase "Decide to smoke marijuana" backward masked on the tune. He played it three times. I never heard it. It was not there. But I saw heads bobbing up and down all around me in agreement that the phrase was there. It was insanity.
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  45

  Return to Jehovah… No Return Address

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  return to jehovah... no return address .

  today i read a small piece of poetic irony.

  im not going to advertise from what web forum i read this, but it was so astounding i had to share it somewhere.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  There was talk on this forum recently about rumor of some change in Watchtower's shunning policy. This rumor was circulating prior to the premature release of this brochure, but it makes me wonder if there's not something to the rumor.

  On the other hand, in my experience the slightest change in Watchtower policy is often treated like miraculous manna from heaven (in other words: overblown) by the JW rumor-mill. Hence, assuming whatever is behind publication of the alleged brochure does represent a policy change, more than likely its fairly inconsequential accept in the mind of the hardcore Watchtower-worshiper who lives and breaths on crumbs falling from the table of their god.
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  45

  Return to Jehovah… No Return Address

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  return to jehovah... no return address .

  today i read a small piece of poetic irony.

  im not going to advertise from what web forum i read this, but it was so astounding i had to share it somewhere.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Return to Jehovah… No Return Address

  Today I read a small piece of poetic irony. I’m not going to advertise from what web forum I read this, but it was so astounding I had to share it somewhere.

  
  Apparently there was a brief mistake made by Watchtower loading a brochure to its web site that is slated for release during the upcoming summer conventions. It was available for a moment and then taken down.

  The title is said to be Return to Jehovah.

  One of the commenters had this to say:

  “I know it's for our safety that we don't associate with disfellowshipped/disassociated ones, as much as it helps draw lost sheep back to the fold. But wouldn't it be cool if in the future we were allowed to send this brochure to such ones? I would love to be able to so, even if I couldn't put a return address! Just knowing Jehovah is calling his lost sheep home makes me teary eyed.” (Underlining added by Marvin Shilmer)

  So we have a brochure titled Return to Jehovah and we have a commenter glad they can send a copy to someone even if they can’t include a return address.

  For sure there is irony in that comment. But somewhere, somehow, there is poetry to be found too. Not necessarily the happy-ending kind, but poetry nevertheless.

  By the way, there is something dark and sinister about someone finding themselves in a position of volunteering “wouldn't it be cool if in the future we were allowed to send this brochure to such ones?”

  Sad as hell. Sad as hell. Sheeple being led to slaughter at the golden calf known as Watchtower.
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  64

  Shutting down the Judicial Committee "invite".

  by kairos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  judicial committee invitation comes, with be there or be square consequences.. ( come or we will df you ).

  what are the sure fire, tested and true tactics that will keep the elders off your back?

  ( for good ).

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  Marvin Shilmer

  I don't think I've ever heard of their sending you a letter for a JC, usually you'll get told verbally.

  Believe it or not at one time Watchtower recommended elders issue written invitation to the judicial committee event rather than doing so verbally.
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  64

  Shutting down the Judicial Committee "invite".

  by kairos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  judicial committee invitation comes, with be there or be square consequences.. ( come or we will df you ).

  what are the sure fire, tested and true tactics that will keep the elders off your back?

  ( for good ).

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  Marvin Shilmer

  One of the items addressed in my blog article on preparing for judicial committee invites is the matter of record keeping.

  - If you want to make an elder (prosecutor/judge) squirm ask whether there will be any record kept of the "meeting" and who will have access to that record, and why they will have access. Then ask if you will have access to this record to dispute any inaccuracies from your perspective.

  - If you are informed there are no records kept then document who said this because it is a lie. Lies are punishable.

  - If you are informed there are records kept but that you will not have opportunity to see those records (about you!!!) then ask why others can see what is written about you but you cannot. Make them give you an answer. Even if the answer is ridiculous, make them answer the question. It is a naturally legitimate question, which means answering it will feel like the natural thing but, of course, answering it for an elder will be awkward because there is no legitimate reason for them to make a record about you yet not let your review the record made about you.

  - Express that if you attend the JC hearing you will insist on keeping your own set of meticulous records by writing down every single thing said. Ask if this will be allowed. If not then ask why not. (There is no Watchtower policy against doing this) If you are told this is allowable then when the proceeding begins you have a ready tool in hand to slow the process down to a snail's pace, not to mention putting serious pressure on any witnesses who testify. For example, most of the time witnesses who testify regarding allegation of apostasy end up asserting their perspective rather than keeping strictly to facts of the matter. Keeping meticulous records allows you to refute inadequate testimony after the fact.

  - If you have gotten this far then you should always demand a continuance of the JC for one good solid reason: unlike the elder prosecutor/judges only now do you finally have in hand all the supposed evidence against you in order to prepare a robust defense. Now you should leave the JC hearing and return at a later date with a written defense (refutation of testimony), and any witnesses if need be and you so choose.

  JC elders hate it when a subject (you) demands to keep meticulous records. Because JC elders are invariably untrained in universally accepted judicial standards (basic concepts of right and wrong, which are found too in Watchtower publications for this very reason) they end up letting witnesses opine away which leaves plenty of low-hanging fruit for judicial refutation. The same goes for questions presented by JC elders. Invariably these men asks lots of leading questions, which taints responses.

  This and plenty of other perfectly allowable tactics provide ample opportunity to demonstrate the utter unfairness of Watchtower JC methods, not to mention gunking up the works in the process. Once I had an elder ask me whether I would share my records. I said, "Sure. So long as you do the same with me." It caused him to think. This was an early stage for that man seeing the truth about "the truth".

  Depending on a person's circumstances and/or interests, there are reasons to attend or not attend a Watchtower style judicial hearing. But if a person opts to attend they might as well make the most of it. That's why my blog offers printable form documents expressly for the purpose of preparing for a Watchtower judicial hearing.
  
  
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  64

  Shutting down the Judicial Committee "invite".

  by kairos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  judicial committee invitation comes, with be there or be square consequences.. ( come or we will df you ).

  what are the sure fire, tested and true tactics that will keep the elders off your back?

  ( for good ).

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  Marvin Shilmer

  
  Judicial Committee Preparation
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  18

  The art of defending Watchtower's lies

  by opusdei1972 in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  the following article, is one of the best efforts to defend one of the most absurd doctrines of the watchtower society:.

  http://www.truetheology.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=172.

  may be the writer was inspired in freddy's thoughts.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  ... if you are trying to defend the indefensible, what the hell can you really come up with?

  First, a person can avoid slathering fallacies all over the place like peanut-butter on a sandwich.

  Second, a person can present their argument for what it is rather than what it is not.

  In this case Watchtower's blood doctrine rests solidly on one thing and one thing only: a preferential conclusion of biblical text. What the doctrine does not rest on is a soundly deduced conclusion of the same biblical text. Arguing the latter is futile. Arguing the former is doable, but not very persuasive for a rational thinker.